Gloria Jean's Coffee - Would You Like Some Jesus With Your Latte?

18/03/08 - for the latest on this story, please visit this link to my G'Day World blog.

John Safran covered this story on his show last Sunday night. I heard it on his podcast today. It struck me because I was in a Gloria Jean's with the boys just this afternoon and was looking at the ad in question.

 

On 8th and 9th of October, Gloria Jean’s coffee houses   around Australia are hosting a special event, Cappuccino   for a Cause, to support the work of Mercy Ministries. When you buy a   Cappuccino or Cappuccino Chiller over the event weekend, 50 cents from each   sale will be donated to Mercy Ministries.

What is Mercy Ministries? 

 

Mercy Australia runs   a residential program for young women aged between 16 and 28 years with life   controlling issues.  These issues range from eating disorders, unplanned   pregnancies, substance abuse, eating disorders, self harm, suicidal   tendencies, depression and anxiety, and the effects of sexual and physical   abuse.  The average stay for a resident is approx 10 months, depending on   each individual girl.

 

 

The program is very structured and is based on   Christian principles.  The residents have class time and bible study   daily.

According to the SMH,

 

The founders of Gloria   Jeans, Mr Irvine and Nabi Saleh, are both members of the Hillsong Church.   

Hillsong, as most Aussies by now know, is a pretty scary evangelical church based in Sydney that is making a major push to get its members elected to Federal Parliament, and had some recent successes. The church has attracted several high profile Australian politicians to its events. The line between Church and State in this country is blurring and it scares the hell out of me. How long before we end up like the US?

 

What many Aussies may not know, however, is that the church has it's share of skeletons, including the founder's father, who held senior positions in the church, but was forced to resign in 2000 "following exposure of his homosexual paedophile activities whilst ministering in New Zealand some thirty years earlier."

 

Hillsong also, allegedly, makes a LOT of tax-free money. On 3 August, 2005, The Australian reported that both Brian and Bobbie Houston were under investigation by the Office of Fair Trading for failing to file financial statements.

 

Hmmmm... Mick, maybe we should register TPN as a church. There's a lot of profit in being a prophet.

 

So, anyway, the bottom line is - if you buy coffee from Gloria Jean's on Oct 8 & 9, be aware that those funds are going to go towards the fundamentalist Christian brainwashing of some already pretty messed up young women. Telling them that they were born into sin and are damned to eternal hellfire if they don't worship a guy who died 2000 years ago is really what they DON'T need right now.

Comments

[Vintagea]

Cameron
You appear to dismiss Christianity too easily, you mention that Jesus died but not the fact that he rose again. I would remind you that no one has "proved" any of the Bible to be wrong. I ask without the Bible, the God of Christianity, how would anyone know what is right or wrong? For instance you belive that paedophilea is wrong, I might ask with your world view how do you know it is wrong?

[Tony]

Are you serious Vintagea?

Even without believing in certain religious views and ideals some things are just morally wrong. Are you saying those morals only come from Christian beliefs? What about non-Christian countries? Do they have no morals?

Your whole argument about paedophiles is ridiculous.

Has anyone proved that the Bible is correct? I didin't think so. The Bible is the worl's best selling fiction of all-time. How can anything that was written hundreds of years after the individual supposedly lived and based on hearsay and legend have much truth to it at all.

How many people of "faith" have been charged or accused of the very thing that your saying is wrong based on your religious beliefs?

Christianity is the biggest con of the last two thousand years.

[Tony]

Are you serious Vintagea?

Even without believing in certain religious views and ideals some things are just morally wrong. Are you saying those morals only come from Christian beliefs? What about non-Christian countries? Do they have no morals?

Your whole argument about paedophiles is ridiculous.

Has anyone proved that the Bible is correct? I didin't think so. The Bible is the worl's best selling fiction of all-time. How can anything that was written hundreds of years after the individual supposedly lived and based on hearsay and legend have much truth to it at all.

How many people of "faith" have been charged or accused of the very thing that your saying is wrong based on your religious beliefs?

Christianity is the biggest con of the last two thousand years.

[Cameron Reilly]

Wow, Vintagea... where to start with your ramblings... I could take the time to post all of the ways in which the Bible has been proven wrong, but someone has done the work for me.

[vintagea]

Cameron I dont't have the time to answer every one of the ramblings on the skeptics website, perhaps you could have a look at a http://www.answersingenesis.org/ for some of the answers.
Tony, what I am saying is that the knowledge of right and wrong comes from the God of the Bible. "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness,"
Romans 2:14-15a
I as a Christian can say what is right and wrong based om my presupposition that the Bible is the very word of God. With the world view of an athiest what is right or wrong is subjective. I ask again how do you know that paedophilea is wrong?

[Cameron Reilly]

Reading that site reminds me of this quote from Carl Sagan's book Pale Blue Dot:

Look back again at the pale blue dot of the preceding chapter. Take a good long look at it. Stare at the dot for any length of time and then try to convince yourself that God created the whole Universe for one of the 10 million or so species of life that inhabit that speck of dust. Now take it a step further: Imagine that everything was made just for a single shade of that species, or gender, or ethnic or religious subdivision. If this doesn't strike you as unlikely, pick another dot. Imagine it to be inhabited by a different form of intelligent life. They, too, cherish the notion of a God who has created everything for their benefit. How seriously do you take their claim?

[vintagea]

Many famous scientist thought differently.

"In the absence of any other proof, the thumb alone would convince me of God's existence."
" This thing [a scale model of our solar system] is but a puny imitation of a much grander system whose laws you know, and I am not able to convince you that this mere toy is without a designer and maker; yet you, as an atheist, profess to believe that the great original from which the design is taken has come into being without either designer or maker! Now tell me by what sort of reasoning do you reach such an incongruous conclusion?" Isaac Newton

"[God] is the kind Creator who brought forth nature out of nothing." Johannes Kepler

"Education without religion is in danger of substituting wild theories for the simple commonsense rules of Christianity." Samuel Morse

"Jesus Christ, I have separated myself from Him: I have fled from Him, denied Him, crucified Him. Let me never be separated from Him. We keep hold of Him only by the ways taught in the Gospel. Renunciation, total and sweet. Total submission to Jesus Christ..."Blaise Pascal

"From a knowledge of His work, we shall know Him" "Christ's passion, His death, His resurrection and ascension, and all of those wonderful works which He did during His stay upon earth, in order to confirm mankind in the belief of His being God as well as man." Robert Boyle

“All human discoveries seem to be made only for the purpose of confirming more and more the Truths contained in the Sacred Scriptures.” "The undevout astronomer must be mad." Sir William Herschel

"The Bible, and it alone, with nothing added to it nor taken away from it by man, is the sole and sufficient guide for each individual, at all times and in all circumstances… For faith in the divinity and work of Christ is the gift of God, and the evidence of this faith is obedience to the commandment of Christ." Michael Faraday

"Order is manifestly maintained in the universe... governed by the sovereign will of God" James Prescott Joule

"With regard to the origin of life, science... positively affirms creative power." "Overwhelmingly strong proofs of intelligent and benevolent design lie around us... the atheistic idea is so non-sensical that I cannot put it into words." Lord Kelvin [William Thomson]

I ask again how do you know that paedophilea is wrong?

[Cameron Reilly]

Got anyone significant from the 21st or even the 20th century? Stop living in the past Vint. Try reading a book written in the last ten years.

Right and wrong may be subjective but paedophilea is against the law because the majority of people in a civilized society agree that it should be. We don't need some imaginary deity to tell us how to live. And - news flash - you don't either. I have no problem with someone having "faith", but cmon. Only people who are living in caves still take the ANY book written 2000 - 3000 years ago literally. And that's probably an insult to people still living in caves. I'm not sure you should even be allowed to use the internet.

[vintagea]

A small selection of Modern Scientist:

"Scientific concepts exist only in the minds of men.
Behind these concepts lies the reality which is being revealed to us, but only by the grace of God."
Wernher Von Braun [1912-1977]; first Director of NASA, pioneer of space exploration

"the highest purpose a man can find for his life is to serve the Will of God." Dr Raymond Damadian, Pioneer of MRI

At age 87, David Brewster (‘the Johannes Kepler of Optics’) contracted pneumonia. His life was soon to pass. He simply said "I shall see Jesus and that will be grand. I shall see Him who made the worlds".

"In my experience, I’ve never seen that. Many scientists might speculate in their papers about how a certain result relates to evolution. But I don’t see that it’s the driving force that enables breakthroughs, or that it features much in most scientists’ daily work. Is having an evolutionary paradigm more enabling of research? I don’t think so. In fact, believing in an almighty all-knowing God, rather than chance, behind everything could be more of a driving force for your scientific work. It gives you confidence that something will be found when you search, because behind it all is a mind greater than your own—‘thinking God’s thoughts after Him’" [to quote Kepler]. Raymond Jones (Agricultural Scientist CSIRO)

"Oh, no—exactly the opposite. Being a creationist, I found it fascinating to study what God did in six days, particularly in my field, genetics. I find it marvelous to discover how God used the genetic codes to inscript life—so brilliant, so amazing". Dr André Eggen

"The whole world of chemistry is a well-behaved world. If you understand the principles of it you can do a great deal to control it. To me, that’s evidence of design and a designer right there! If all that came about by chance (as evolutionists claim), I would not believe that the world of chemistry would be as well-behaved as it is." Patrick Young (research chemist)

"Finally, I am forced to conclude, as reason dictates, that if the Bible is truly the Word of God (as I am convinced that it is), then it must be accurate in every detail, including the account of creation in 6 literal days. Science tells me that evolution is certainly not scientific, while creation is not in disagreement with what is truly scientific. Hence, creation is the more acceptable account of origins. Since creation requires a supernatural, omnipotent Creator, and the Bible is the only convincing source of who this creator God actually is, then the biblical account of creation must be accurate in every detail, including six 24-hour days for completion from beginning to end." Edward A. Boudreaux (theoretical chemistry)

Pretty lame answer, since when did a majority opinion make something right. Not so long ago the majority of Germans thought it was right to kill off all the Jews. What happens if in a few years the majority of people think paedophilea is right and it is no longer against the law? This has happened with abortion and we, the "Great Western Civilised Society" murders millions of babies every year.

[Rob Irwin]

Question from the peanut gallery here:

What is your motivation in any of this, vintagea?

Your faith obviously helps you, supports you, guides you... and whatever else it might do for you. And that's tops.

But why the need to go on the offensive on a Website you probably have little to nothing in common with? What is the motivation? Are you trying to "save" people? Convert them? Or just be utterly annoying, and further the already bad name that "bible bashers" have?

This is an honest to God (if you'll pardon the pun) question on my behalf.

[vintagea]

Rob
This is the first time I have posted on this type of forum, the only other forum I have posted on is DP Review, photography is one of my passions.
Many times I have come across people putting down Christians (with illogical arguments), and I admit we are far from perfect. I supposed I get a bit annoyed with atheist that don't back up their claims with a logical argument and that society in general has the belief that truth is objective. I also as a Christian have a commission to give answers for the hope that is in me.
If you don't want me to post again, just get Cameron to say the word and I will stop.

[Cameron Reilly]

Vint, more than happy for you to post here. Love the discussion actually.

I don't think its a lame answer. Majority opinion makes the laws of the land in a democracy. Abortion isn't about killing babies - that's the kind of blatantly ridiculous statement that makes most people shrug off fundamentalist christians such as yourself as not to be taken seriously. The cells that are terminated during an abortion are not substantially different from the cells you terminate when you take a shower. They are all "life".

If you want to start quoting the nazis, let me remind you of the comparable atrocities committed by christians since the 4th century. The destruction of the Cathars, the Gnostics, and other "heretics"; the many Crusades; the Inquisition; not to mention the persecution of people such as Galileo for suggesting that the "heavens" did not revolve around the Earth.

When it comes down to developing a view of the Universe and how it works, I'll take logical measurement and systematic measurement over mythology. The human race was kept in the dark ages by christianity long enough. However, I respect your right to believe whatever makes you feel good.

[Rob Irwin]

Vint, it's not up to me -- this is Cameron's site.

[Vintagea]

Cameron
I am it bit of a rush so a couple of quick answers.
1. Abortion: all comes down to one question is the aborted baby human or not?
2. So called Christians committing atrocities: Depends on who you call a Christian, I don't consider Catholics Christian, they don't follow the Bible and have a gospel of "works" which is totally un Biblical. I think all your examples relate to Roman Catholics. In fact it has been the Catholics that have persecuted Christians the most, their own Roman Catholic encyclopedia records the murder of millions of Christians.
3. "Majority opinion makes the laws of the land in a democracy": Just because the majority says something is right does not mean it is right, my previous examples still stand.

[thehouselive]

I can't figure what sucks worse for you, Cameron. Is it that you will have no relief from the fires of hell for all of eternity or that your ignorance and stupidity is being displayed for all to see all over the world wide web.
What haunts you when you can't sleep at night? It's that your soul cries out for a creator and your mind fluxes all of this "knowledge" and shuts down your heart. Your words are words of a scared little soul, Cameron. Say what you want, but nothing will take away what you know you need deep down inside.
Yeah that's it...come up with some "smart" response. That cry is still there....
You're soul longs for it's creator.

[Rob Irwin]

Clearly an Old Testament reader above, Cam...

[Cameron Reilly]

hehe oh James James James. If only you were worth a smart response. I love it how the holier-than-thou christians need to resort to insults when they can't come up with an argument. Says a lot about values of thehouse live, your organisation. What's your motto? "If you can't win, just tell them they are going to hell and insult them"? Nice one. 2000 years and that's the best you can come up with?

It's the "scared little souls" than feel the need to invent the concepts of soul, god and hell in the first place, Pastor James Brown. They have no relevance to me and therefore your weak attempts at insulting me fall far short.

[Rob Irwin]

Yup, if you're not down with the Christian kids, the only response they have for you is this rather violent end amongst some imaginary flames. Which, by threatening you with, actually goes against all the tolerance and love that is actually at the core of being a Christian in the first place. It's extraordinary how fast the real values go out the window for some people... and in invoking all this other BS might just say a little more about their own psyche than they probably think they're revealing...

[James Brown]

I guess you're right. Sorry.

[Juliet]

Getting back to the original point of this conversation....

raising money to help vulnerable and hurting women...

after I was raped and my life fell apart I wish there had been an organisation like Mercy to help me get my life back together. So it's Christian - so is the Salavation Army, Christian Aid and a host of others, but they do good work. At least they are trying to do something.

So from one who has been there, whatever your belief just go and raise some money, hold a coffee morning or whatever and do something good with the money no matter what you do or don't believe in. We don't all think alike but if we spent as much time making the world a better place as we do typing replies on here then the world WOULD be a better place....I'm off to put the kettle on....how many sugars???

[Miriam Parkinson]

ooook this is starting to remind me of the time I accidently stayed in the IS lounge too long on a wednesday and was suddenly and unexpectedly surrounded by christians of the fundamental variety at a christian union meeting.
Now alot can be said for Catholocism and the "High Church" Anglicans and Orthodox Christians too for that matter. There is alot of positive pschologogical merits in ceremony. I personally love the ritual elements of the Catholic Mass so long as the priet has thought provoking arguments in his sermon.
But when you take a whole lot of misinterpreted ideals culled from an ancient book and then strip away all of the ritual and ceremony you just have a bunch of annoying people who like to talk in tongues and give out bibles on street corners this gets to me.
Just say God is our father in heaven and we are all his children. Yes this would be good reason to love him. But you say that if we do not love God he will cast us into hell. To all you parents out there: Is your child not loving and obeying you a reason to eternally cast them out and punish them. Or would you continue to love your child and hope that one day they will come back to you.
If God would cast us into hell for not going to church then he is a bad parent. Simple as that.

[Cameron Reilly]

nicely said Miriam! Juliet - I've got no problem with any christian organisation helping people. More power to them. It's the ones that make their support contingent on accepting their fundamental religious beliefs that concern me. Especially when they are dealing with young people in a delicate emotional state. That's just wrong.

[Juliet]

I've looked into Mercy Ministries a bit. Girls apply to go there - no one is sent there unwillingly. The organisation are up front about what angle they are coming from and they seem to have a very high success rate. People go of their own free will, they know what the organisation is about and therefore if they are uncomfortable with that in any way they can choose another programme more suited to them. Can't really see what your problem is with that. It's not like they are allocated and have no choice and are being indoctrinated. All you have to do is sign up to accept their APPROACH not their BELIEFS. At the end of the day no one can make you believe something you don't want to. Even if these "young people in a delicate emotional state" did decide to believe and went on to live happier lives as a result, as many of the people of their website seem to have done, would that be such a terrible thing?

[Rob Irwin]

>Even if these "young people in a delicate emotional state" did decide to believe and went on to live happier lives as a result, as many of the people of their website seem to have done, would that be such a terrible thing?

In priciple, no, but it is pretty morally bankrupt, not to mention desperate, to prey on anyone under mental duress to add to your numbers, no matter what kind of group you are. That is also undeniable.

[Juliet]

How is offering counselling and practical help morally bankrupt and desperate? Isn't that the same as social services do? That too comes with a whole philosophy which you may not agree with but if you are in that system you have little choice but to accept their beliefs when in a delicate emotional state. I don't hear anyone complaining about the lack of choice there.