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Monday, November 15, 2004

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Paul Wakeford

If ever there was a web application deeply tied to one browser, OWA is it.

Cameron

Yeah good point Paul. BTW, I've since managed to get RoboForm working like it did in Maxthon. Haven't yet figured out how to make FF "group" sites together like Maxthon does either.

KC Lemson

It doesn't work under firefox like it works under IE because that is the design of OWA. There's a premium version and a basic version. The premium version takes advantage of DHTML and things we know that IE5.5+ support, and we only have to test a few varieties of IE on various OSes to ensure that premium works well. The basic version is standard ecmascript, html 3.2, etc that is more portable to different browsers. We test a small variety of browsers on different platforms to ensure that OWA basic works.

Supporting thick client-like features on multiple browsers (not even counting multiple OSes) is not a simple task, and so we prioritize browsers based on what our customers use, and IE is at the top of the heap.

Cameron

KC - thanks for the detailed response. What's next in the heap? ;-)
And where does Firefox sit these days in your list of browser priorities?

Stompie Haasbroek

In my opinion, everyone should stop using rogue and inefficient web browsers such as Forefox, Opera etc. and just use IE, the most hypertextually-correct, powerful, and forgiving browser there is. Everyone will then be able to enjoy coding and viewing websites without having to worry about these sub-standard browsers messing it all up.

G_Toast

As a tech professional, I can tell you that OWA doesn't work with Firefox because OWA uses proprietary software linked only to Microsoft. They do this on PURPOSE of course.

Besides that, the latest version of Firefox is simply put...AMAZING. I highly recommend it.

Brendan

To get RoboForm to work in Firefox, you have to download the plugin from the RoboForm website.

Stompie Killer

This bit of love goes out to the M$ IE Team Lead wannabee knob gobbler who suggests "everyone should stop using rogue and inefficient web browsers such as Forefox, Opera etc. and just use IE".

You are SUCH a weenie

Peace, Love, Happiness & All that other hippy bullshit

:-)

Arman C.

"Outlook Web Access is a dog under Firefox. Why doesn't it look or operate like it does under IE?"

It doesn't look or operate like it does under IE because the Microsoft developers wrote code that will only work with IE. If they had used valid code it wouldn't be a problem.

Racism Sux

OMG the real problem here is black people lol nah ur allrite arnold but yeah fuck all these hos tryin to beat my browser download it at firefox.com

oh and jews u kno wat i think......

Lawrie

Being an IT proffessional i can turly say that firefox smells like a cow dump
anyone who likes it should be shot

Nick

I am impressed that OWA works with Firefox at all. It is awesome that it does. OWA should be looked at in the same manner as it was programmed, not "Web Access" but "access via the internet using Microsoft Internet Explorer."

OWA in Firefox is coded in deliberately... personally I like it more than IE. Note that OWA does NOT work with Opera and probably any other browser out there. Maxthon, is just a wrapper to IE and as far as rendering pages go is IE, hell maxthon is just the mac daddy of annoying feature-filled and flashy web bars.

Michael Moore is a Fat Ass

Firefox sucks elephant wang. What is the reason for using it? Popup blocker? OMG!!!!!! Brilliant idea. I've got that with internet explorer on windows, and safari on my laptop. Tabs? See above. Security? Please. 1.01 came with 17 security updates. At least internet explorer is open with everyone about their security updates. Mozilla usually just tells everyone to upgrade and that's it. Oh noooooo, what about the active-X?? If you are so dumb you can't click no, then pick up your monitor and smash it over your head. Like somebody can't give you a spyware program through a .xpi file? And what is with firefox's reputation as an innovator? Half of the crap they steal from Opera like everyone else. Firefox didn't invent tabs. They weren't the first with a pop-up blocker in their browser either. Opera wins on both accounts. And guess what? I don't use Opera either. Let them do the hard work and pass on the ideas to the browsers that actually work.

Andrew

What the heck is wrong with you nerds. Do you just sit in your basement discussing stuff that no one gives a fuck about. I mean really get over your selves and go outside.

Michael Moore is a Fat Ass

Hey Andrew, is your sister still outside?

I want to sign my name in semen on her back.

Why don't you go make a lowercase f.

The problem is some of us have Exchange in our environment and we have to support Macs as well. Microsoft abandoned IE for the Mac. Using the last version of IE with OWA still only gives you the basic version, not the enhanced version that someone else mentioned that you see when you use OWA with IE on the PC. The other problem is Microsoft abandoned Outlook at version 2001 for the Mac. A classic application that is not OS X native so we're stuck support classic applications when all of the other standard apps are OS X native. Microsoft has given us Exchange Server Support in Entourage which is OS X native but Entourage is the evolution of Outlook Express for the Mac. It's a POP mail client not a real Exchange client. They have made improvements but it's no Outlook. Many of the group-ware features you know and love or are forced to use in Outlook are absent from Entourage. No pst files, no browsing the GAL, free/busy barely works, no posting to public folders, no shared calendars, etc.

I know, go buy a Windows PC and use IE right. If you were going to post that comment, I already did it for you.

IE and Maxthon suck!

"Being an IT proffessional i can turly say that firefox smells like a cow dump
anyone who likes it should be shot"

Being a (future) IT professional I can say that Firefox is the best browser in existence. It is extremely more secure than IE and all of its rip-off (Maxthon, for instance) combined, popup blocking works like a charm, ActiveX blocking is a marvelous thing, as Tab Browsing. It is free in all the meanings of the term. And most importantly, it is not based on the IE engine. It is not an IE wannabe (in fact, I doesn't see why any browser could be proud of being a rip-off of IE, since IE is crap).

"Firefox sucks elephant wang. What is the reason for using it? Popup blocker? OMG!!!!!! Brilliant idea. I've got that with internet explorer on windows, and safari on my laptop. Tabs? See above. Security? Please. 1.01 came with 17 security updates. At least internet explorer is open with everyone about their security updates. Mozilla usually just tells everyone to upgrade and that's it. Oh noooooo, what about the active-X?? If you are so dumb you can't click no, then pick up your monitor and smash it over your head. Like somebody can't give you a spyware program through a .xpi file? And what is with firefox's reputation as an innovator? Half of the crap they steal from Opera like everyone else. Firefox didn't invent tabs. They weren't the first with a pop-up blocker in their browser either. Opera wins on both accounts. And guess what? I don't use Opera either. Let them do the hard work and pass on the ideas to the browsers that actually work."

In fact, Firefox's community is so open-minded that you won't find spyware in .xpi files. IE's ActiveX often install without even prompting the user. So, think again.

One last thing : if Firefox sucks (which is not the case), why does it is nearing the 50,000,000 downloads?

Kailash Nadh

I am not against FireFox, but I just dont understand why people are running behind it. Its secure, OK, I Agree. When IE was released, it was also secure, but with time, new exploits were born. Who knows? There might be exploits for Firefox too. And looking at my Apache logs, 72% of the users still use IE itself (40K+). And its a pain when it comes to making a script or a design compatible in IE and Firefox.

I just dont get it !

Nameless

Don't you realize that even though Firefox might not be all that it sometimes is hyped up to be, wone of it's greatest virtues is that it's open source so that any of you who know programming (and if you don't, you deserve to die and you shouldn't be using the computer you little AOL using Jew!) can go right in and edit the source code and compile your own fucking version! You don't have to wait for some dumbass developer to become sober and realize his browser sucks and include an outdated update with the newest service pack (and yes, I'm talking about IE developers).

"And its a pain when it comes to making a script or a design compatible in IE and Firefox."

What about all the people who are using Safari on Mac (btw, Safari is based on Konquer which is based on Mozilla, which is the same thing that Firefox is based on)? Are you tired of making a script compatible with them, too? Face it, tyour web site should be accessible, which means minimal use of scripts. I, by the way, think that putting up with IE's lack of *INTERNATIONAL* W3C CSS standards support is a pain too. IE is falling behind, and COMPLETELY disregarding W3C standards and coming up with your own is not cool at all. period. I mean, every single other browser other that IE gets it, why not IE? Oh yeah, Microsoft is composed of a bunch of rich drunk bastards who never listen to their customers. That's why.

Clueless

I'm not going to start this off as a "I'm an IT person..." response. Becuase you'e installed Windows at some company makes you IT, but in no way does it mean you have any experience in IT security. I am dropping my $.02 here because of like the Internet community as a whole, most of you know nothing about IT Security.

IE vs Firefox?!? Mozilla has come out and annouced all the vulnerabilties so far and how to deal with them. Recent vulnerabilities were patched in 3-4 days. Can't find information of what the vulns were?? You too stupid to subscribe to a decent security mailing list like NTBugTraq? Now Mircosoft on the other hand has a whole list of still to be patched vulnerabilities. These vulnerabilities have exploit code in the wild. Some of these vulns are over 3 months old.... Maybe a patch will come out next month, IE users. HAHAHAHAHA

As for you lazy web developers, how about writing code to the standards instead of Micrsoft's standards....

And lastly, this goes out to all you IE users.... Keep using IE on your WinXP SP1 machine on your WEP-enabled wireless network. I love easy targets. 15 minutes is all you need :-)

Nameless

I think that Mozilla is doing a pretty good job for being a (correct me if I'm wrong) non profit organization. Also, all you that say that Maxthon/IE is way better than firefox, think on this:
- Firefox is open source. Maxthon/IE is not. What does that say to you?

Any program that is non-trivial will have bugs. That is the law of programming. No program is perfect. However, you can reduce the amount of bugs in a program. Firefox just hasn't had as much time to get debugged, that's all. IE has had a longer time.
In time, FF will have less bugs than IE and as computer users become (hopefully) more understanding of how the internet and computer programs work, they'll be able to make smart decisions about what browser is right for them. They'll realize or learn someday that the little lowsercase "e" on their desktop is not the internet, and is not yahoo (or whatever their homepage is hijacked to be. What got me to using FF is too many porn sites using JavaScript to set my homepage to their site.)

Whether it be Opera, FF, Konqueror, or Safari, I encourage you to dump IE and use a standards compliant browser.

Mike

Firefox is nice decently fast and follows better standards..but I should note that I have never ever had a problem with IE. I still think it will be interesting when IE7 comes out over the summer. If it is more standards compliant, fully supports PNG and CSS, has tabs and an RSS reader like the way they claim it will, there will be little to no reason to switch to FF, seriously. A different engine? How important is that to most people. If I can have all of the above plus the ability to update windows and see everything correctly...why switch?

If Mozilla were smart...they should be thinking now.

Nameless

"If Mozilla were smart...they should be thinking now."
If Microsoft were smart they should have started thinking ten years ago.

"...there will be little to no reason to switch to FF, seriously."
Again, open source. Even if IE does turn standards compliant I will keep using NS and FF because they are open source. I will not support the tyrranical ideals of Micro$oft.

Luke

I'm honestly suprised to hear "IT Professionals" complain about firefox. Probably just used to using IE? Firefox is a great browser for several reasons. 1 - safe mode, 2 - extentions, 3 - tabbed browsing, 4 - DEFINATELY more secure... the list really does go on.

As an IT professional (and I'm not making that up... some of these guys make me wonder) I have had to support more machines running more browser versions and makes than you could imagine and I can without question say that the percentage of users who have a browser related problem that use IE is MUCH higher than those who have made the switch to the fox. There are several issues that crop up with IE that can be difficult to resolve - firefox does not have that same malfunction rate, and when it does, you can launch it in safe mode and make the changes needed.

One more HUGE thing. You can safely uninstall firefox without leaving a bunch of leftovers. I have seen issues where uninstalling and reinstalling IE SHOULD resolve the problem but doesnt because its so tight with the OS... ahh I have been waiting for firefox to emerge for a long time. Those of you who have an issue should try it before posting lol, the difference is really very obvious.

Sam

I devellop intranets/extranets for a living. Most of our applications, running on SharePoint server with Office web components, will simply not run in anything other than IE.

FireFox is a great browser, but it's nothing else. If all you do is look at porn than FireFox is for you. If you want to make some $$ in the wonderfull world of IT, then get off your high horse and use what everynoe is using.

You keep talking about standards, in 5 years there will be new standards, the ones that MS are coming up with. Everyone believed that the world was flat.. that has changed and so will this.

I have 150 000 clients with about 250 000 web projects at the moment.. and each one will redirect you to the MS home page if you try accssing it with anything other than IE.

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